Lana Milner (00:00):
Hey, welcome to the Woman Up Podcast. We are your hosts, Lana and Laura. We’re real life sisters.
We’re branding experts, and we’re diving into everything on this podcast, including today. We’re talking
about trusting your gut. Oh my God, is the hardest thing to do sometimes trusting your gut, trusting
your heart over your brain, or you with your brain. Do you go with your brain life lessons with Lana and
Laura?
(00:38):
Okay, but seriously, I want everyone at home to think about this right now. When was the last time you
wholeheartedly absolutely threw everything into trusting your gut. You made that change, whatever it
was, big or small, that moment that you’re like, screw the noise, screw everything else. I’m going all in
on what my gut tells me, even though my brain is, it’s the devil and the angel on your either shoulder,
right? Absolutely. Yeah. When was the last time you actually made a choice like that? It’s a hard one. It’s
a hard one to reconcile with yourself. Am I making the right choice? I’m a second guesser. Ask Laura. I’m
the one who’s like, but when you listen to that little voice, it doesn’t steer you wrong. So we are big
proponents of listening to your gut, diving in sometimes before you’re ready. I think that’s the key is
you’ve always got to go before you’re ready.
(01:35):
You always have to start before you’re ready. If you’re waiting till you’re ready, you’re never going to
start. But there are people like me, it’s the A type who like to prepare. I am a preparer. I like to plan. But
that being said, I’ve, I’ve learned a lot in knowing it’s okay to just jump in. Okay, but that is, you want
that treasure map that I’m going to get from A to B to C, and this is how I’m going to do it. But it’s that
three letter word that is one of the biggest barriers to trusting your gut. How do you need to know?
How do you have to have the path? She’s looking at me right now, personally. I need to know how, yes, I
need, I need that math. I really, really do. But I feel like you can lead with your heart, but take your brain
with you. I really live by that, and I do think that you can’t, so you can trust that gut, but you can take
your brain with you.
Laura Thomson (02:26):
Lana’s the type of person that if she’s going to go for a, I don’t know, a cross country tour or something,
she’s going to have the route mapped and she’s going to know which exit, and then I’m the one that’s
like, Ooh, that was the wrong exit. Okay, I’ll get the next one. Funnily enough, I’m not that bad of a
traveler, but I do am a preparer to a degree, and I feel like you’re right. I do need to know that my entry
points and my exit points, and maybe that just comes from my career path and where I’ve been, but as
long as I have those, I’m fairly malleable in between. Yeah. Whereas you’re just like, fuck it.
(03:03):
Let’s do this. Right? We’re going to get there one way or another. Let’s just get there. But I feel like you
create the how as you go, and whether or not it’s trusting your gut in, I don’t know, the relationship
you’re in, if it’s trusting your gut in a business decision, whatever it may be. I feel like the minute you
really focus on how you plant seeds at doubt, and you’re like, well, how am I going to do this, but I can’t
because of that. And then you find blocks every single time instead of just saying, I’m jumping in and I’m
just going to start. I’m going to throw that spaghetti at the wall and I’m going to get from A to B. No
matter how I do it, I’m going to get there. And then in the end you look back and how many times would
you say, it’s not what I expected.
(03:43):
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That isn’t what I expected. It was actually better. But I feel like you have to know yourself too. As long as
you know yourself, you can leave that breadcrumb trail. You can always get back out. You just have to
take that leap of faith and say, okay, I’m going to start. I always know where I started from. I can always
go back to that. I don’t have to get, I always, I’ve heard A plus B does not equal F. It’s so true. You can
just go A and B and slowly edge your way towards your goal, whatever it is. But it can equal F if you hit a
few blocks along the way. A mate cd, welcome to the yin and yang show. This is a case study in our sister
relationship. Oh, peak. And to our mind, yes, no, but how is difficult? And I think that at some point you
just go jump in.
(04:35):
You do it because the minute you create those obstacles and those barriers by trying to figure out all the
answers, you’re missing out on the actual action of it. You’re not going to do it the way that I think you
possibly could do it. And of course, you have to lead with your head as well. Your head has to be a part
of it. I’m not going to tell anybody to jump off a cliff just because they think they’re going to have an
adrenaline rush without, I’m thinking their brain’s going to save them with a parachute. But you have to
think about it and be cognizant of what you’re doing. But you have to have a little bit of bravery, right?
Yes. You got to be able to just, you do have to be brave. And so what would be like, because I feel like it
is a real back and forth battle, I think for a lot of people, myself included for all of us, is when do you
know to trust yourself to drown out the noise and go with what feels right versus make dumb decisions
and bad decisions that could end up setting you back.
(05:36):
So what are some of Spidey senses, if you will? Well, for me, and I don’t know if you agree with this, but
it’s that feeling ickiness. I hate God. I hate that feeling when you’re just like, this is just icky. It’s off. I
don’t like it. Whether it’s going to the job that you don’t really love or it’s hitting the gym with things you
don’t love doing. The style of gym that your workout, you’re doing whatever it is, when something feels
off and not right, and that you’re not excelling and succeeding because you’re just doing it. That to me is
the telltale sign that you need to trust your gut. The change has to happen. And it’s funny how our
perspectives come into play too, because Laura and I, even when we meet with clients or we meet new
friends, whoever it is, you meet people on the street even you get a feeling right away, do I align with
this person?
(06:28):
Am I, we’re very open to meeting people, but sometimes you get that feeling and you doesn’t go away.
And sometimes you ebb and flow on it a little bit. But I swear to God, every single time, freedom time, it
will come back around to your initial perception. I mean, there’s a 2% chance of it swaying the other
way. I know. And we’ve had that before, meeting people and whether in the different paths of our job
and our career where he is just that little voice in the back of your head that’s like, this is going to bite
you in the ass. They’re going to be difficult. And whether or not it’s relationships, even how many times
have we had that discussion where someone will say, I met this guy and I’m freaking crazy about him,
but something tells me he’s not good for me. It’s like, oh, you better run for the fricking hills right now.
Lana Milner (07:15):
So the sisters sit them down and we have a talk, but we know you’re not going to, but you should. But
you know what? I can also relate that to parenthood too, because with my oldest daughter, she’s
turning 16, and you want them to experience life. They have to make their own mistakes. You cannot
live it for them. So you can give them all the damn advice you want to, but they have to go through the
motions. Yes. Would it be great if they listened a little bit more often to our sage advice? Yes. But I think
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that’s such a valid point because trusting your gut comes with experience and it comes with learning.
And how many times do you look back saying, I should have trusted my gut? Well, you’re going to use
that moving forward in the next experience when your gut is telling you, yeah, let’s go.
(08:00):
And you have to fail to make those experiences. And you know what? More often than not though,
when you listen to that little voice, it’ll lead you on a path to some sort of fulfillment. But speaking about
little voices, I think there’s another big barrier to trusting your gut. And that’s the voice of other people.
Because how many times do we get an idea or there’s something floating around in our head, and
what’s the first thing we say to somebody when we bring it up? What do you think about this? Yeah,
what do you think about this? We’re seeking approval. We’re seeking this validation of our idea that tell
me it’s good. Tell me it’s good. Cause my gut’s telling me to do it when reality, you already know you
want to do it, right? It’s in there. That idea is in there for a reason.
Laura Thomson (08:49):
Stop, and this would be my personal opinion. What I’m trying in my own life to do is stop asking, what
do you think? And start saying, I’m doing this because it changes the answer. The minute you take away
that, tell me your ideas on this, and you go to, I’m doing this, people’s responses change and I’m an
approval junkie. That’s how I gain my self-esteem. I really like to like, oh, let me do something for you
and yeah, tell me it’s good and I’m going to feel good. So I mean, call it codependency, whatever you
want to call it. It’s the words of affirmation. It is it’s words of affirmation, but it’s also, it’s making me feel
like I’ve risen to a challenge and I’ve succeeded can. So when you say, I like what you did there, that’s
great, but I also believe that it can get dicey. So I do agree with you with that regard, but I don’t know,
where do you bridge that gap between collaboration and seeking approval?
(09:51):
I don’t know. Cause I don’t have the roadmaps. You’ve got the roadmaps, but it’s like we were talking
earlier too about it’s naming your child, right? Half the time don’t, not half the time. But many people
don’t tell people what they’re going to name their child because they don’t want that seed of doubt
planted because so seed of doubt planted turns into a field of doubt, and you don’t want that piece. And
once it’s done, it’s done. So saying to somebody, I’m doing this, it’s already done. What are they going to
say? They’re probably going to commend you on it, and that’s going to give you the validation that
you’ve been looking for and the reason you’re asking to begin with. But how do you bridge that? I have
no fucking clue. I think the main point is that, and may, Doug, maybe you want to hop in here too and
give us your 2 cents, because really we value that. At what point do you say, I’m going to lead with my
heart versus lead with my brain? Because really if you include all of that noise, it can also be beneficial
to have that outside opinion.
Doug Downs (10:59):
And I got to have both, and if they’re both in step then that’s cool. And they’re both against it. Well,
that’s, that’s cool too. But there’s a reason I’m thinking about it because probably one is fighting with
the other. It’s in the end, my gut wins. Honestly, I’m a logic and analytics person, but at the end of the
day, I’m still a human who’s an emotional being that happens to think. So
Lana Milner (11:27):
It’s so funny that you say that your gut wins because you are such a logical and analytical person that
you would think that you’d always outweigh and go with the scientific group, the scientific group yet.
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Doug Downs (11:37):
But because there’s usually something I haven’t documented in the data that my gut knows and can’t
articulate. Oh, it, it’s remembering something, right? Usually a hunch of some kind.
Lana Milner (11:48):
But I also believe that’s
Laura Thomson (11:50):
Trusting. I just can’t bring it forward at the time to be able to pro and it, I’m the
Lana Milner (11:54):
Same way. But isn’t that trusting in your personal brand to know yourself enough to know that you can
come up with something that’s missing? That something’s missing?
Doug Downs (12:04):
If I didn’t trust my gut, I never would’ve started my business. So many of your clients, because the logic
is get a, okay, I’m not going to name a profession because I’m just going to insult somebody. Get a job
2020, it has a defined benefit plan. Ride into the sunset. I know I’m going to retire. Right? Cool.
Awesome. Do it. If that’s your gut, do it. But if your gut is saying, actually, I think I can reach for the
moon and the stars give it a chance.
Lana Milner (12:33):
I also think there’s something to be said for having too much information. It’s almost like you can’t
unsee something. You can’t unhear something. And I think Doug and I, coming from journalism
backgrounds, we were used to being able to see both sides of the story. And that was our job to be
unbiased, right? So to depart from that is difficult, at least for me. But it’s also exhilarating to say, no, my
opinion as a human, my personal brand wins here.
Doug Downs (13:03):
How many times has Blue won the argument logically only to have read up and change my mind within
the first minute or so, just all based on logic, right? Speaking
Lana Milner (13:12):
My language. Yeah, you’re speaking my language, Doug. This is me. And we joke about that as sisters
because I am easily swayed because I’m like, oh, I didn’t think about that angle. That is interesting. And
it fills my brain with more knowledge, which is great. But it also creates this ambiguous, I guess,
nothingness where you kind of sit in it and then you’re like, Hey, wait a minute. I really have to hone in
on where I’m at. Who am I dealt rolling what I want? Yes.
Doug Downs (13:39):
But sometimes logic wins. An example is climate change. In my gut. I look outside, oh, weather hasn’t
changed a whole. We’ve had snow here in the spring. It’s been cold. I don’t see a lot of change, but logic
at the end of the day has to win for me. There’s too much logic for me to deny because
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Lana Milner (13:59):
Of the better. Good. Yeah. And yeah. Doug, can you think of a time recently that you had to trust your
gut over your brain?
Doug Downs (14:05):
I suppose with one of my kids, there was something that I really wanted to tell them, don’t do that. And
I’d learned from an earlier experience, if I do that, I’m presenting logic. And because emotion and logic
have to go have to be equal parts of the scale, this my kid will just naturally respond with emotion. So if I
respond with way more emotion, they’re going to apply logic to it, which I suppose is a logical approach,
isn’t it? Now that I’m thinking that through.
Lana Milner (14:42):
And your kids are smarter than all
Doug Downs (14:44):
Of us. Smarter than me, thank God,
Lana Milner (14:46):
Right? It’s difficult. It’s not easy. It is a tug war. It’s a personal tug of war. And I think that as you grow
your personal brand, as you really step into who you are, it’s easier to take that leap of faith and say, I’m
going all in on myself. I always think back, and I mean it relates to trusting your gut so much, but our
great-grandmother used to always say, doubt means don’t. Hmm. Always doubt means don’t. No matter
what it is in your life, if you’re doubting it, it’s there for a reason. Come back to it and see if that doubt’s
still there. I love that. And there’s also, we’ve had instances in our careers where we’ve taken a job or
we’ve met with a client and everything on the surface feels right. It’s great, great money, but there’s
that seed promise you that is the biggest lesson that I’ve learned in owning our own business, is that
when you have that seed that doesn’t quite feel right.
(15:46):
It’s not, and you just have to keep, at that point, you’re either diving in knowing that that’s not the way.
Things may not go the way you want it to, or you need to say, and this’ll be one of the hardest things
you do in business and in life, just to say, you know what? That’s not for me. Sorry, not aligned with this
project. Sorry, I can’t do that for you that weekend. Whatever it is. When you do that and you set that
boundary and you listen to your core, the magic happens. That’s the magic. The magic sucks. That’s the
sweet spot. I know. Okay.
Laura Thomson (16:18):
Lana, think about one time, and then whether or not it’s you or us or business, think about one time that
you had to, or we had to trust our gut. Oh gosh. Okay. Story time, story time, story, time.
Lana Milner (16:30):
Sister brand. Yeah. You know what I mean? There’s so many times for sure, but I think probably one of
the more recent ones was we were planning a really big event, and on the surface, everything seemed
to be coming together really, really well. And we were really excited about it. And there seemed to be a
lot of alignment. All the boxes were being checked, but there was just like this, I don’t know. Are you
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talking about with speakers, you mean? Yeah, these are big speakers, really famous speakers. And we
were really stoked to be, we were zooming with them all the time. There was a really great synergy that
was happening. And I would just come off of those zooms and be like, oh, something is off great. But
yeah, that was great. But something just, I can’t shake this feeling. I honestly, personally, I would play it
off as like, oh, that’s just me hyper analyzing.
Laura Thomson (17:23):
Cause I like to do that. I would push it aside, whereas I now know, no, those were the seeds and they
were being planted and I wasn’t listening. Then you had a field of doubt. And then shit hits the fan. And
I’m like, I told you. So we’re like, no, you didn’t. No, not joking. Yeah. What was your take on that?
Because that was a big one. There was a lot of money on the line and we were in our hearts, very
excited for it, and we were hopeful. I think that’s where you let your brain take over your gut because
you don’t ever want to stop something good from happening just because you have this little feeling,
but your brain is really going, Nope, put it aside. This is good. This is good. This is good. Got it. Good. And
different from last time.
Lana Milner (18:14):
I was comparing it to other instances where we had dealt with celebrities or we dealt with other people
that were keynote speakers. And so I was comparing it. I was like, you know what? This is really good.
And I felt the alignment. And I think that’s where I started to betray my own gut and my own brain,
because really I was going all in on something that I was not feeling right. And that is the worst feeling
though. You just hit the nail. You kind of gave me a little shiver there, because going all in on something
that doesn’t feel right is the worst feeling in the world, and it should be the best. You should be feeling
the best. Yeah. And when you’re second guessing that, oh geez. Oh, and I have to say even before, that’s
like a woman that’s going down the aisle to imagine she doesn’t want to marry.
Laura Thomson (19:03):
It really? Is it totally trust you? Damn good girl. Totally it. It’s a runaway bride. If you’re looking at that
altar and you got that feeling, you need to be going the other direction. And that is actually, you know
what? That you hit the nail on the head because that’s exactly how I felt. I was waking up in the road,
you were walking down the al alter. I was waking up and I was having anxiety about it. It wasn’t feeling
like that feeling when you’re excited about something and you can’t wait to dive into it. That’s how I
know that our business is what’s right for us. That’s how I know that I’m on a good freaking vacation.
You know what I mean? Yeah. When you wake up in the morning, you’re like, yes, ready for this. And if
you’re not feeling that way, and in this case, I woke up and I was just feeling drained.
Lana Milner (19:47):
I was feeling like my energy was completely zapped, and I was worried. I was worried and was
concerned for the future. So when I had that feeling, I know mean there were tons of players involved
here, and there was just a lot of facets to this issue. But I knew in my head and in my heart that this was
not going to end the way we wanted it to. Yep. I guess another really good example, what recently is
that we were in the middle of doing our podcast with Doug here, and Laura out of nowhere goes, this
doesn’t feel right. We’re in the middle of recording it, and we were having some technical issues, so we
had to take a break for a minute, but we come back on, she’s like, this doesn’t feel right. And I always
commend her for it because, or I commend you.
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Laura Thomson (20:35):
I’m like talking like you’re not here. I commend you for it because you do. You know yourself really well,
and when you get that ick, you step back and you reassess. And in this case, it was just like you couldn’t
move forward. And it ended up being actually a big fight for us because we are very different
personalities. But at the end of the day, you had the bravery to step back, oh, thank you. Put Doug on
hold. Please hold Doug and say, I figured my shit out over here. Say we need to step back, reassess, and
move forward with something that more alignment me has more alignment and means more. And I
think it’s just that feeling right when you can. And I like when you’re doing something that you should be
excited about, like we just said, and it’s not feeling the way it should, you’re not in alignment with it.
Lana Milner (21:25):
That’s just a feeling that is terrible. Nobody likes sitting in that feeling. So I think pulling the pin is
difficult. And there’s obviously situations which air, it’s much harder to pull the pin, but I think once it’s
pulled, you get that, ugh, it’s still, it is so much relief, a relief, a relief, feeling, relief for sure. You’re like,
that was hard as af, but I’m so glad I did it. And also it’s going to save you the energy and the anguish
and all the rest in the end. And also for us in that case, it was like, Hey, well, do we want to put out
something that is not entirely us or not aligned or not feeling right? No, we don’t. So at the end of the
day, if you take that step back, no matter what it is in your life, and do the quick reassessment and move
forward with a, I guess a better perspective, I just in alignment with yourself, in alignment with yourself,
I think that’s the end of it.
Laura Thomson (22:22):
And it’s just then you can walk easily into the next chapter. Sounds good to me. If you resonate with this
podcast today, the biggest thing, thing that we look forward to is receiving your messages. And if you’re
going through something, if you are playing with that devil on one shoulder and angel on the other, we
want to hear from you, share your stories with us. And we might even read them live on air. Absolutely.
And you know what? If you know somebody that could benefit from kind of getting that extra push that
they need to trust their gut, please send this to them. We know so many people and ourselves included
that sometimes we just need that little extra nudge. So send us a review, please, and send us a star on
the reviews, right, stars. Sure. We like stars. Sure we’re stars. Why not? Why not? And then reach out to
us on the sister brand.com. Of course, on Instagram, we’re always on Instagram, so you can catch us
there anytime. Absolutely. And of course, thank you to Doug for chiming in today. And of course, we’re
always being behind the scenes making us sound good. Cheers to you. Happy day everyone. Go slay your
day and woman up. Cheers.